The Terry Tucker Experience: Hoops, Hostages and Higher Purpose

Speaker 1: 0:10

Everyone, welcome back to the Emotional man Weekly Podcast. Today it is my treat to introduce you to Terry Tucker. He's been a NCAA Division I and basketball player a Citadel Cadet we won't hold that against him. I was a ROTC guy myself, an undercover narcotics investigator, a SWAT team hostage negotiator and a high school basketball coach, a business owner and, most recently, a cancer warrior. Terry and his wife have lived all over the United States and currently reside in Colorado with their daughter and their re-enterior, maddie. Now, back in 2019, terry started a website, motivational check to help others find and lead uncommon and extraordinary lives which I would argue Terry has experienced. That's what we would want to explore and dive in today. So welcome to the show, terry. Thanks for having me.

Speaker 2: 1:02

I'm really looking forward to tackling this topic with you today.

Speaker 1: 1:06

Thank you so much, and Terry's really kind of working to be doing a mini series, as we've started doing. So we're going to our conversation will cross over to three different episodes, and what we will be exploring today is a problem that I've often seen with some of my clients that we've coached and just entrepreneurs in general, and that is they're in a lot of pain. Whether they're that pain is they're in struggling relationships, they're fighting with their kids, they're fighting with their wives or they're just overwhelmed by all the demands that they see on their time. That's, you know, they're struggling to provide. They feel like they need to be, you know, participating in the community, whether that's a church congregation or a charity efforts, but then their wife wants a piece of them and their kids want a piece of them, and maybe they like to relax a little, but they're just so overwhelmed and they're just ready to give up. They're not really sure how to unpack all this, so it's better just kind of keep the status quo.

Speaker 1: 2:06

And so, terry, as you've grown up, you know you, you come from a family and and you know we've talked a little bit past about your father and his expectations for you and, of course, just the path that you've traveled. Have you ever experienced this, this kind of sense of overwhelm by everything that's around you? And so let's start there. Have you ever experienced that kind of overwhelm as a business owner or just as a father?

Speaker 2: 2:34

Yes, so I go back to my my police days and I was working the night shift. So I was. I was working 11 at night till 7 o'clock in the morning. This was in Cincinnati, ohio, and Cincinnati did not have night court. So if you were active which my partner and I were incredibly active then you know you get off work at 7 o'clock, go grab a bagel, you go to court at 9 o'clock and, depending on when you get out now you've got to go home and try to get some sleep.

Speaker 2: 3:04

By our daughter, my wife and I have one child, a daughter. She was always the focus, she was always what we'll do, whatever we have to do in our professional lives, to make sure that we provide for her, that we're there for her, that she ever feels alone or abandoned or anything like that. So my wife would take our daughter to work at which or it's to work, I wish you know take our daughter to school on her way to work and then I would pick her up. You know three o'clock when she got out of class. So, depending on what time I got out of court, there was a very good chance that you know I'm going on a couple hours of sleep. I would get her. I would get home, we would do homework, you know all that kind of stuff.

Speaker 2: 3:50

My wife would come home, I would try to lay down for an hour or two, but there were many nights that I would go to work on two or three or four hours of sleep and I carried a gun for a lit and I had to make decisions that, you know, a lot of us don't have to make in terms of life and death situations with people, and I I never wanted to shortchange our daughter, but at the same time I knew I was kind of playing Russian roulette with the fact that, boy, if I have to make a, you know, a split second decision here, am I going to be at my best to do that? And in all honesty, on many occasions the answer to that question was no, I was. But that's what, that's what we did.

Speaker 1: 4:39

What was that like for your family? Because obviously there's the physical demands of that physical fatigue and then the mental fatigue and, let's be honest, being in any kind of relationship, how compatible you are, there's still issues. You know you're two different people, two different cultures. So what were some of the kind of relationship issues you had to work through during that?

Speaker 2: 5:09

Yeah, I mean, you know my wife, for days I work nights, that's why we only have one child. You can do the math, you know. I mean we don't see each other, but my wife was a tremendous support to me and when we married I was in hospital administration, so I was a suit and tie, eight to five, monday through Friday, at a guy. We get married and moved to Santa Barbara, california. My grandfather was a Chicago police officer. I always wanted to follow in his footsteps and I saw a circular that came in the mail and it had an advertisement for Santa Barbara City College. You take this class, you can apply to be a reserve police officer at any agency within the state of California. And so that night at dinner this was before our daughter was born I'm like, look, I'd like to do this, will you support me on this? And she's like, yeah, absolutely, go, take the course, see what happens, see if you like it. And then I did like it and Santa Barbara retained me as a reserve police officer and my wife used to say I would work all week, my regular job. I was a customer service manager for an academic publishing company when we lived in California and I would come home Friday night but I'm a uniform, go to rule, call, work all night and then come home Saturday morning and she said you were exhausted. But you had this big smile on your face and I knew that you kind of found your purpose.

Speaker 2: 6:33

And so when our daughter was born and we moved back to the Midwest, where we're both from, I said look, I want to do this full time. We were in Cincinnati. I said I want to go through the police mechanics, I want to do that full time. And she supported me in that. The other thing I did is I was on swat and at the time we we carried pagers. We were not a full time swat team and set, I'll tell you, she would tell you she was in here every Sunday night. You know she'd make this great dinner for my daughter and I and we'd sit down as a family and we'd be having our meal and the pager would go off and she would look at me like, are you serious? Like I, yeah, I got to go, I got to go and she supported me with that.

Speaker 2: 7:21

And that was a little bit of a contention, especially those Sunday dinners. I mean, we we tried to eat together as a family, but Sunday dinners were special. They were, they were our time. They were time to just be together as a family and not create rush up because somebody's got to go to a game or whatever. It ended up being Sundays were family days, and when that pager went off, I just cringe.

Speaker 2: 7:47

When it went off, it was just like because I knew I had to go and and I didn't go on the swan without the commitment of her. I'm like, look, you know, this might mean some time when we get called away, might get called away at Christmas Eve, you might get called away, you know, on New Year's Eve, things like that. Are you okay with this? And she said yes, and so we supported each other and then.

Speaker 2: 8:11

So I did that for almost 10 years as a Cincinnati and then she lost her job and she was the primary breadwinner in our family. So she couldn't find a job at Cincinnati, she found one in Houston and so I gave up when I loved my law enforcement career because I love my family absolutely positively more and I followed her to Houston and so we've had these kind of given takes through our actually was 30 years yesterday that we were married, through this 30 year relationship of I will support you, you will support me. We will ultimately come together to support and be there for our daughter. So family and I learned that from my parents I mean my, my, you know if we're brothers we all were athletes, we all played sports in college and my parents taught us the value of loving each other, caring for each other and supporting each other, and I like to think that my wife and I passed that on to our daughter as well.

Speaker 1: 9:09

No, was there any any conversations about whether or not you should stop doing swap, or you know? Hey, this is a real strain on our family. Let's maybe get you a different job.

Speaker 2: 9:22

No, it was. It was something that I always wanted to do. I always wanted to be in law enforcement by, as I said, my grandfather was a Chicago police officer from 1924 to 1954. It was actually shot in the line of duty with his own gun. It was not a serious injury, it was shot in the ankle. This was 1933, and my dad was one year old at the time and he always used to remember the stories my grandmother told of that. Knock on the door, mrs Tucker, grab your son, come with us. Your husband's been shot.

Speaker 2: 9:55

So when I expressed an interest in following my grandfather's footsteps, it started with my father. It was like, absolutely not. You're going to college, you're going to major in business, you're going to get out, get a great job, get married, have 2.4 kids to live half a year after, but that's what my dad wanted me to do. That's not when I felt my purpose, my mission, my why in life once. And my dad was dying of cancer when I graduated from college, and so I had really the first major life decision to say well, I could say you know, yeah, dan, I know you're dying, but I'm going to go. I'm going to go off and blaze my own trim or I'd have love and respect for you. I will do what you want me to do.

Speaker 2: 10:36

So my first two jobs were in business because my dad wanted me to do and I saw the joke I did what every good son did. I've waited until my father passed away and then I followed my own dreams, and if I don't mean to sound conceited with this, but one of the things that I am most proud of that I've done in my life is that I never let my purpose stop. I knew I wanted to be a policeman. I was a 37 year old rookie police officer, which by most accounts is pretty old to be getting into that line of work, but it was always there it was. It was not something that I was willing to give up on or to quit on. It just took me a little bit longer to get to that point in my life.

Speaker 1: 11:19

So how did you balance this purpose that you found, your why and being a police officer with your role as a husband and father? Because that's one of the most demanding things that entrepreneurs, business owners or, you know, service members whether that's in the police forces, military forces oftentimes we feel called to fulfill this purpose, to serve our community in this specific way, but we also also have this burden to provide for our families and serve our spouse and serve our children. So what did it look like for you and your spouse, for you and your wife, to find that balance? What did that communication like? Because it seems like you made it work.

Speaker 2: 12:10

We did, and I think it was because we talked about it. I mean, my family was my sanctuary. You know, the things you see in law enforcement you really shouldn't see. You see the ugliness, you see the hopelessness and the helplessness and people dying and young people dying and things like that. And there's a tendency I mean there's certainly a higher rate in terms of a national average among police officers for food or alcohol abuse, drug abuse, divorce, having affairs, all that kind of stuff. Because of what you see.

Speaker 2: 12:48

And there were a lot of times where it's like, hey, this ship's over, come on, we're going out to get a drink. And I never. I love the people I work with. I would lay down my life for those people, but I never did that. I never said, sure, I'll go out to the bar with you and have a drink. I was like, no, I'm going home because that was my sanctuary, that was where I felt safe. Those were the people that gave me love and support.

Speaker 2: 13:13

So it was really a lot of communicating with each other, my wife and I. I mean she traveled for her job, but we would sit out. It's like, okay, you know, next week I've got to go to San Diego. Okay, I'll take, you know, a couple of days off so I'll be here with our daughter and that way I can get her to school, I can get her home and all that stuff. So we went to coordinate our schedules and obviously, with SWAT, you know, a call-up wasn't scheduled those things, you know, were usually unplanned. But she never asked me to quit, she never asked me to give it up and I never asked her to stop traveling or doing anything like that. It was like you love what you do, I love what I do, but I love our family more. I've always said the three biggest things in my life, especially right now, are the three Fs, which are faith, family and friends. You know, my faith in God, my family and the people that I've all close to me, who are not related to me, those are absolutely the most important things in my life.

Speaker 2: 14:12

And again, going back to my parents, our parents taught us that they modeled, that they were always there. So my dad traveled a lot and I you know I've said this to my mom a couple of times I always felt that my mom was scared when my dad was gone, because this was the time we'd wear cell phones and all that kind of stuff. And you know, I've got three boys. I'm trying to get them to practices and games, I'm trying to wash their uniforms, I'm trying to go to the store, I'm trying to make a dinner. I'm trying to do all these things and I don't have to support because my husband's traveling, my dad. I was traveled three, four, five days a week and I always felt my mom was afraid when dad was gone. It was, and I I feel bad about that. Now you know that it's not that I could have done about it as a kid, but I just felt bad about it. But my parents made it work and I figured, well, they can make it work. I know my wife and I can.

Speaker 1: 15:14

Now I thought I want to come back to something you said earlier in what you just said, as you talked about how the likelihood for divorce. Substance abuse was especially high in the police force, and you also see that in the military, but not for you Now, a lot of times growing up, and this is just in the culture we're in. The marketing message to us is if you eat this, you'll be happy. Coca Cola is great. You know, sometimes marketing messages like hey, open, open for happiness. Or even today, if you look out on the Amazon trucks it says warning contents may contain happiness and so we're conditioned to think that food things will make us happy.

Speaker 1: 16:08

We're also conditioned to think you hear things like you made me angry or I don't want to hurt your feelings. Where we we place how we feel on external things or on people and we make our, we also think to ourselves that I'm in control of other people's emotions. So how did you navigate? Because obviously in this relationship, it doesn't seem like when you were struggling, you were trying to change other people. You weren't trying to change a circumstance. So talk to me about when you've been in pain, whether that's in your relationship, whether that's, you know, whatever difficult time that you were in, why is it that you think you didn't turn to substance abuse to make yourself feel better or to numb how you were feeling, versus having this very healthy relationship with your spouse? I?

Speaker 2: 17:06

think it goes back to knowing and living what your values are and I think the biggest I don't think I know the biggest value for me is to serve. I mean I could have made a whole lot of money other than being a police officer. And I remember back most probably most of your listeners will remember Fred Rogers, fred McFeely Rogers. Mr Rogers, on Mr Rogers Neighborhood, educated so many young people, including me, on his television show In 2003,. When Fred Rogers was, when Fred Rogers died, his family was going through his effects and they found his wallet. Inside his wallet was a scrap piece of paper on which Mr Rogers had written four simple words life is for service. And I love that story.

Speaker 2: 18:04

And I think I think that so many of us think that we are born empty and that when we get out of school and we kind of get into life whatever that means for you that our job then is to fill our empty self up. We've got to get a great education, we've got to get a great job, we've got to make a lot of money, drive the nicest car, live in the nicest house, have the greatest family, et cetera. And we feel that filling ourselves up will somehow make us happy and fulfilled, and what I found is that it's just the opposite. We're not born empty. We are born full and born with everything we need to be successful in our life, already in status. We just need to find that and pull it out and use it for our benefit. So, instead of thinking that you've got to fill yourself up maybe you look at it as no I have to empty my cell out, certainly for the betterment of yourself, but also for the betterment of your family, of your friends, of your community, of your country, et cetera. Because I've seen so many people my wife has been in the financial services industry for over 40 years, had a mentor on Wall Street. I've seen so many people that you and I would look at and say, boy, that person has that all.

Speaker 2: 19:32

But those people tend to be miserable because they are going after things that they'll never fill themselves up. I want to get the latest iPhone, or I want to drive the latest Mercedes, or I want there's always one more thing that they think a big gap. It will fill them up and it will make them fulfilled and happy, and it just never does. Stuff doesn't matter. What matters is what's in your heart, what's in your mind and what's in your soul. And if you understand that, then now, all of a sudden, being of service to yourself, to your family, to your friends, to your community, makes you more fulfilled. And when you're more fulfilled, when you understand your purpose, when you understand your values. Values are those things that aren't going to change, no matter how bad things are, no matter how bad your circumstances are. Those are foundations. Those are rock solid things that are going to change. And I knew what my values were, and my biggest value was service. It was service to my family and certainly service to my community as a police officer.

Speaker 1: 20:41

On our next episode. We're going to wrap up the conversation hereby. I really want to dive down because a lot of times when we think about the problems that we have whether in relationships, we can often sometimes think if my wife wasn't so irritating, we'd have a better relationship. If my kids would just clean up the first time, I wouldn't have to yell at them. Or if I were a better person, then we're more like I'm not good for my family, so it's best if I just leave.

Speaker 1: 21:17

And in our next episode I want to connect the dots between having values and these problems, because I think a lot of times we miss that connection and so we are. We're going to the outside thing to make ourselves feel whole. So in our next episode I want to talk about how values fill us up. I love this idea that we are born full. How do? What's the connection there? Because I think if we can bridge that gap, this can solve so many problems in our relationships. It helps us balance our lives. And so in our next episode that is what we'll talk about. We're looking forward to it. Thanks everyone for listening and we will see you next week on the Emotional man Weekly podcast. Thanks so much, terry. Thank you, zef, I appreciate being on.