Braving the Battle: Terry Tucker's Transformation from Cancer Survivor to Inspirational Author

Speaker 1: 0:10

Hey everyone, welcome to the Emotional man Weekly Podcast.

Speaker 1: 0:13

This is our second episode with Terry Tucker, our cancer warrior, swap team hostage negotiator and, among many other things, a faithful father and husband. Terry, in our previous episode we kind of left it on this note, where he talked about your value of service. He talked about this idea that you were born we are born full, and that lifestyle about filling ourselves up. But it's really about giving ourselves what's already inside of us out, and we wanted to connect the dots between these ideas of living our values and the problems a lot of us are experiencing in our relationships, in our business and in balancing the two. So I was hoping that you could kind of share how you found that service was, first off, your core value, one of your core values, so one, how did you know that service was your core value? And two, how did that help you feel full? How did that help you with the pain and problems in your life? And if you wouldn't mind just sharing some of what those problems were and discussing your journey through them, I'm very interested.

Speaker 2: 1:21

So why service? Because it was in my heart, it was something that I was supposed to do and I know that sounds and I don't think we spent a lot of time thinking about that, about our further mind or our soul. You know we were. You were saying in the last episode they're all these things. You know this. Buy this beverage and it will make you happy. Drive this car and all of a sudden you'll have status and power and influence and all that kind of stuff.

Speaker 2: 1:53

And I don't know if you've heard this story, but I'm going to tell it. It has to do with Alexander the Great, probably one of the greatest conquerors, probably also one of the greatest murderers in the history of the world. But there's a story, probably not a true story, but it's still a great story. So Alexander the Great is dying and he calls his outsources advisors around. He said I want you to carry on my final three wishes, he said. My first wish is that I only want my physicians to carry my confidence to the great, he said. My second wish, my second desire, is that I want the road to the cemetery paved with gold and jewels and precious stones. And the third wish is I want my hands hanging outside my coffin. One of his counselors kind of steps forward and says okay, you're Alexander the Great, the most powerful man in the world at this time.

Speaker 2: 2:50

And I'm paraphrasing these seem like pretty goofy wishes. Why are you both? Why do you want this? And he said well, the first thing I want people to understand, by my physicians carrying my coffin to the grave is that no doctor cures anybody. They only help the body to cure itself. People should be responsible for the things that they do in life. You know, smoking, not eating right, not exercise, things like that. People need to be responsible for their own success, their own health, their own happiness in the world, he said. That's the first thing he said. The second thing is I've spent my entire life on curing, accumulating gold, precious stones, well, power, influence, and yet none of that is coming with me beyond the grave. I'm going to be in the same grave, the same size grave, as the pauper who's buried next to me. And then the third wish was I want my hands hanging outside my coffin because I want people to understand that I came into this world empty handed and I pretty much leave it the same way, and I think that's just a good story to think about what's important in our lives. Things are not important you can't take these with you but the connections.

Speaker 2: 4:13

Somebody asked me, how do you want to be remembered? And I said, first of all, I don't really want to be remembered. I mean, 50 years from now, after I'm dead, nobody's going to remember me anyway. But what I want to be remembered for are the connections that I made with other people, and a lot of those connections had to do with serving in some way. It's not about me, it's about what gifts and talents I've been given by my creator that I can use and service for other people. And I just felt that in my heart and I think a lot of times, especially with relationships.

Speaker 2: 4:47

You know, there's the old saying don't, don't marry for beauty or things like that All in love with somebody's heart and somebody's soul, because if you can do that, beauty goes away. You know, I remember when I was I went to college at the Citadel down south and there was sort of a Southern tradition that when a bride and room got married you gave them a jar and a bag of beans and every time they made love during the first year of their relationship after they got married, you put a bean in the jar and then every time they made love after the first year you took a bean out of the jar. Supposedly the jar would never end. So you know this thin, you know. I mean we're hot for each other. We're, that's great, but that fades somewhat. I mean I think you got to work to keep it going, but it fades over time as you get into your career, as you have a family, as other things start pulling on you. So fall in love with the person's heart and their soul, because that's what will sustain you as you move through your life with this person and as you age.

Speaker 2: 5:53

My wife and I have been married for 30 years. 11 and a half of those years I have been battling cancer and I can't tell you the amount of times I've asked my wife look, just put me in a home and get on with your life, because you didn't sign up for this. You know, almost half our marriage has been dealing with cancer having my foot amputated, having my leg injured, my leg amputated during COVID, still being treated for tumors I have in my lungs. She is the reason I am still alive, other than God. She is the reason I'm still alive and so I feel horrible knowing that I'm putting her through this. But at the same time you know for better or worse, but ritual, poor and sickness and in health you know the the vows we take when we get married and think about those vows when you take them, because there's a very good chance somewhere down the road You're gonna be called to basically answer the call with those vows.

Speaker 1: 6:50

When did you struggle in your, in your relationship? Have you ever? Do you feel like you ever have struggled in your relationship?

Speaker 2: 7:00

Yeah, I mean when, when I got cancer, it was a. It was a terrible struggle, it was a terrible burden. I mean I went from one day being a guy who had a cow, a spray gopon, on the bottom of his foot and I was a basketball coach who were living in Texas To going to see a podiatrist friend of mine who took an extra Lottery you got a cyst in there and I could cut it out. He cuts it out, he shows it to me and and he's like how it's so big deals, just a gelatin sack, well, white fat in it, no dark spots, no blood, nothing that gave either one of us concern. And then, deaf, two weeks later I get a call for him and, as I said, he was a friend of mine and the more difficulty he was having explaining to me what was going on, the more frightened I was becoming until finally just laid it out for him. He said there have been a doctor for 25 years. I have never seen the form of cancer that you have a very, extremely rare form of melanoma. Most people think a melanoma is too much exposure to the sun. It affects the melon, the pigment in our skin. Mine has nothing to do with sun exposure. It's a form of melanoma that appears on the bottom of the feet and the palms of the hands. And when I was diagnosed with a Welfort of this story, we were in with the doctors and they asked to see my wife out in the hall and they brought her out there and they said, okay, if he gets a miracle he might live five years, but more than likely he's gonna be dead in a couple years. Is he gonna be okay with that? And she laughed that I'm gonna go in there and tell him that and see what happens and that. And I mean I've never been a quitter, I've never been one to give up. But they brought her out to tell her that. And here it is, 11 and a half years later, and I'm still here.

Speaker 2: 8:47

I can't tell you how many times I've expected to die and I didn't and I had. I remember when I had my leg a bit, I had a cat scan, had these big tumors in my lungs, and about eight months later my doctor showed me my cat scan and I have no medical background, I don't know how were you cast in, but you can kind of look at it and say, boy, that sure doesn't look like it belongs there. And and I had these big tumors in my lung. It flew it all around the plural spaces around the the perimeter of my lungs. And I remember looking at my oncologist and saying I was high and live and I still I can still see him Kind of put his head down and he shook his head. No, and then he looked up and he looked at me and he said I don't know, because you shouldn't have been. Which said to me God's not done with when I die, wearing, dying, how I die way above my pay grade. So I don't spend a lot of time worrying about the dying. It's been more time worrying about the living.

Speaker 2: 9:45

And I know I've talked a lot, but let me tell you one more story. When I had made footy a beats for my leg a bit stated, my doctor said you know, I want to put you on chemotherapy for these tumors. I was eight years and it is fight. And I looked at him and I said is it gonna sit my life? He said no, probably not, but it may buy you some more time. And I said well, the outcome is gonna be the same. I don't think I want to take chemotherapy, but I'll go only talk to my wife and daughter, and it really did happen this way. It's really kind of a funny story.

Speaker 2: 10:13

So I go when I start telling my wife and daughter what the doctor Commends and my daughter's like, all right, we need a family meeting. I'm like family meeting. There's three of us so we had to sit around the kitchen table and individually talking about how we feel about me having chemotherapy. And then when we're done with that, my daughter's like, all right, let's think about how many people on dad they have chemotherapy, and my wife's a dog eraser. I'm like, and I'm getting out of voted for something that I don't want to do.

Speaker 2: 10:41

But I remembered back when I was in the police academy in Cincinnati, our defensive tactics instructor used to have a spring of photograph of the people we love the most to class and as we were learning Different techniques to defend ourselves, we were to look at that photograph Because he reasoned you will fight harder for the people you love, then you will fight for yourself. So I took chemotherapy, not because I wanted, but because I love my family more than I love self and in hindsight it was the right thing to do. Was the bridge that got me to the clinical trial drug I've been on for the last three years. If it wasn't for my family, I probably wouldn't be having this conversation with you right now.

Speaker 1: 11:26

No, it seems like there was a thought and a belief here, because you mentioned it earlier. You're like you told your wife you should just move on. What was behind that thought, or what was behind that statement?

Speaker 2: 11:41

Feeling like I was a burp. I mean we haven't had a vacation in 11 and a half years. I mean we rarely leave the house, especially since COVID, because I have tumors in my lungs and getting COVID potentially be fatal for me. I mean we have a very spartan existence. I mean fortunately we're not real exciting people, but we don't need a lot of you know, glitz and clamor. We got to go out and do stuff, but I just felt like I was a burden and I, when I was, as I mentioned, when I was first diagnosed with cancer, it was a death sentence and so they didn't have anything to treat me other than surgery. So they put me on this drug called interferon, and the side effects of the interferon were that it gave me severe flu-like symptoms for two to three days every week after each injection, and I took those weekly injections for almost five years. So imagine having the flu every week and I'm not talking, I just feel achy, I'm like I'm throwing up, I have diarrhea, I ate, I have chills, I have all of it every week for five years and it wasn't a cure.

Speaker 2: 12:51

And I remember feeling like there were sort of two camps at that point in time. One camp was the living and the other camp was the not dying. And I felt I was in the not dying phase, I really was living, I wasn't contributing. I mean, if you would have asked me what my goals were at that point, it was to live till tomorrow morning. That was it. I was just trying to find a way to survive for one day and then, if I did, then I'd try to find another way to survive the next day and to watch your family watch you suffer. Like that is, for it is just, it's like I would be better off dead. And in all honesty, I prayed to die during that period of time, never contemplated suicide, so I don't want anybody to think that I did. But I actually asked God. I said look, I'm not living, I'm just not dying, just taking out this mess. Obviously he didn't, but he certainly gave me the strength to go on.

Speaker 2: 13:48

And that was a five year process that eventually, at the end the interferon became so toxic to my body that I ended up in the intensive period with a body temperature of 108 degrees, which is usually not compatible with being a lie. But somehow I survived that. But I had to stop taking the interferon because it was just too toxic to my body. And almost immediately the cancer came back and the exact same spot on my foot where it presented five years earlier. And I just was like, okay, I just went through a hell for nothing. I mean, it didn't, it didn't do anything. And I remember the old Winston Churchill quote if you're going through hell, keep going. And that's kind of what I did. You know, I'm going through hell, but I'm just going to keep going, one day at a time.

Speaker 1: 14:38

So you're believing like I'm just not dying, I'm a burden. Do you still believe that?

Speaker 2: 14:43

To a point. Yeah, I think I do, you know. I mean, like I said, we have, we have a vacation. Our daughter's in the military. She's in Florida. Now If we want to see her and her husband, they have to come to us. It's just when she got married it was lucky I was able to use my prosthetic leg to walk her down the aisle.

Speaker 2: 15:04

But just transporting we live outside of Denver, transporting everything I need my walker, my wheelchair, my prosthetic leg, everything down to a hotel room in Colorado Springs which is about an hour and a half away. I mean I almost needed army logistics to help me do that. I mean it was ridiculous. I mean we're throwing all this stuff in the back of the Honda and it's like I give the valet 20 bucks because, you know, he just carried all this stuff in for us, you know, to our hotel room.

Speaker 2: 15:33

So it's just not easy for me to get around. It's not easy for me. I mean every time I go for treatment my wife's got to lift my wheelchair into the back of our car and then get it out for me and things like that. So I am a burden. But I've gotten to a point where I can accept it and what can I give my wife? What can I give our daughter? You know to be? I can't give you things, but I can give you me. I can give you time, I can give you discussions, I can give you jokes, I can give you things that make that connection. Not, I really can't give you anything physically.

Speaker 1: 16:15

There. There's a poignant moment here and that is sometimes we can't change the circumstance and the circumstances your family, if you need to go anywhere, needs to help. You are not capable of doing physical, these physical things, and the thought I'm a burden to my family, though that may you know, the thought may be true, you know it's, it's you could say objectively, you know, maybe true, but it seems like you've transitioned to a new belief, a new thought that I may be a burden, but how do you complete that sentence?

Speaker 2: 17:00

But I have a purpose. I think that's incredibly important. I mentioned my dad was dying of cancer when I graduated. My dad had end stage breast cancer which back in the 1980s they did not treat a man with end stage breast cancer and they told him to go home and die. He lived another three and a half years and I believe he did because he had a purpose. He loved real estate. He was in real estate his entire life and he actually worked up until two weeks before he died.

Speaker 2: 17:29

I sort of tucked that in the back of my mind and said you know, when it's my turn in the barrel, I need to have a purpose because I think if you don't, you just sit around and think how lousy your situation and how bad you feel and how ugly this is. I know how bad my situation is, I know how bad I feel, I know how ugly this is, but I have a purpose. My purpose is to put out as much goodness, as much positivity, as much love, as much motivation into the world as I can, with whatever time I have left. No idea when it's going to be, but I've had so many sort of starts and stops where, okay, you're probably going to die now. Well, he didn't die. Well, okay, let's move. Oh, you're probably going to die. You didn't die again. You know, I mean it is kind of funny because all these people rally around, my family, my friends all rally around with, oh, it looks like he's going to die, and then I don't. And then it's like, well, we kind of got to go back to our own lives. And then it happens again, and it's happened at least three times during this 11 and a half year journey. And so I've always had to have a purpose. And you know, I wrote a book, I write every week I'm writing another book, and so I've got to have something where I'm communicating, I'm connecting with other people, because if I do that again, that feels to me now that's what my purpose is. And then my purpose has changed.

Speaker 2: 18:57

I think we tend to think that there's one thing in life, you know, there's one purpose we have in life. Boy, wouldn't it be great if our purpose could align with our job or occupation? It doesn't have to. Your job could be something over here, it's what you do to pay the bills. But your mission, your purpose, your why it's over here, it's to be a podcast host, or to write or to page or whatever it is you feel that you're supposed to do. And I'll end with especially when I speak to younger people, I always tell them if there's something in your heart, something in your soul that you believe you're supposed to do, but it scares you, go ahead and do it, because at the end of your life, the things you're going to regret are not going to be the things you did. They're going to be those things you didn't do, and by then it's going to be too late to go back and do them.

Speaker 1: 19:50

And I want to connect the dots here, because you just said something incredible. Sometimes we can't change our suffering, sometimes we can't change the circumstance, but how we think about it. The purpose you give yourself, you know, is you think about it. If you continue to think you're a burden and your family's better off without me, the feeling, the emotion is probably I don't know. It could be discussed with yourself. It could be a version, it could be whatever it is, and your actions would likely mean you try to put separation between you and your family, and the result is you create a larger burden on your family because you're making it harder for them to care for you, and so you're trying to create separation.

Speaker 1: 20:34

However, because you think I'm a burden but I have so much to give, you feel purpose, and what do you do you give back? You give more. The reason. Your feelings change the pain you're experiencing. It evolves when you give it a meaning and a why, and I think for the entrepreneurs, the business owners, the fathers, the mothers out there who think that they're a burden that they can't change, it's better just to leave their families, or it's just better to kind of end the marriage, what advice would you give them, if they're in that spot, that what helped you when you were at that low, what changed for you?

Speaker 2: 21:27

I guess a couple things that I've been down. One was my faith and the other was something that I learned, I think, from playing team sports. You know, I started playing basketball when I was nine years old and I played all the way up until I graduated from college. And I think what team sports taught me and I think this can be whatever team you're on in your life and we're all on teams. Nobody does this singularly. We all have people that help us it's the importance of being part of something that's bigger than yourself. You know, you realize on a team that if you don't do your job, not only do you let yourself down, but you let your teammates down, your coaches down, your fans down, your families down. And, if you think about it, the biggest team game that we all play is this game of life. And you know I realize things get tough, I.

Speaker 2: 22:17

And if you ever go into a marriage or a relationship thinking it's all gonna be sunshine or rainbows, you're nuts, it's not gonna be, it's gonna suck a lot of times. But when you don't communicate with the person, when you you know, oh, I wish they were different. And I have to note that never go into a relationship thinking you're gonna change another human being. Take them for what they are and if you can't, then move on and find somebody else. But don't ever think you're gonna change them, because you're not gonna change people. People are gonna change and you're gonna change, but don't think you're gonna change. Oh, I can make him better or I can get him to do this for me. If you can't do it when you're dating, you're not gonna do it when you're married. I can promise you that. So understand that. Understand that. Yeah, things are gonna get hard. But again it goes back to what do you value in life? You know, if you value family, if you value love, if you value your vows that you gave when you got married, if you value that commitment to another human being. Understanding that this is going to suck, but I'm gonna embrace the suck and I'm gonna take that on and know your family is not better without you. Now I'm gonna throw a big caveat in there. When there's physical certainly physical abuse and things like that, emotional abuse, things like that, maybe you are better off in the situation. Don't get me wrong on that. But if things are just hard in your relationship, the part is what makes it good. If it was easy, everybody would do it.

Speaker 2: 23:52

And some people have said to me you know, do you ever think why you got cancer? Why me? And my response is why not me? Why not me? What makes me so important or so special that I shouldn't get this disease? I shouldn't have my foot, my leg why not me? I'll handle it, I'll figure out a way to make this work. I'll figure out a way to do that and I have done it and thank God my wife isn't. She's Norwegian, so I always do it.

Speaker 2: 24:22

So you're kind of that Soviet person where you know it's like come on, let's get it done, we gotta get it done. And that's great for me because we're compatible in that way. It's not, she's not a whiner, she's not a complainer, it's like yeah, things are hard, life is hard. Take the hard and use it to make you stronger, to make you more resilient, to make you a tougher human being. You can do that. I'm perfect example. I just take the pain that I'm given and it makes me tougher. Go ahead and give me some more pain. I can handle it. It just makes me. You can too, because I promise you I am the biggest wimp in the world if I can handle this, anybody who's listening to us can handle this.

Speaker 1: 25:06

Thank you so much, terry. Everyone, this is Terry Tucker, cancer warrior and just, I think, a deep thank her and thank you so much for sharing your insights and your experience with us. This has been a pleasure for me and I'm sure I have for everyone who's listened. In closing remarks, terry, how do you measure success in life? Or how do you measure success in your family, I think?

Speaker 2: 25:33

the best definition of success that I've ever heard in my life and I heard it when I was incredibly young. I was a big fan of John Wooden, who was basketball coach at UCLA when I was growing up, and Coach Wooden had this definition of success and again at the time, the winning is basketball coach in college basketball. And here's how he defines success. He said success is peace of mind, which is a direct result of self-satisfaction in knowing that you did the best to become the best that you're capable of becoming. That's it. Here's this great coach who won all kinds of games. But if you listen to that definition, nowhere in there does it say anything about winning, because it's just peace of mind. My mind is good because I know I did the best to become the best I'm capable of becoming. If you, I think I'd never heard a better definition of success. I love that definition. I did the best, that's it. But did you do the best? You know? And somebody, oh, yeah, yeah, I did the best, I did the very best I could.

Speaker 2: 26:42

My wife works for the young manager of former Navy SEAL and he's kind enough on my off weeks to call me and we talk sometimes about what the SEALs call their 40% rule, which basically says that if you're done, if you're at the end of Europe, if you can't go on, you're only at 40% of your maximum and you still have another 60% left to reserve to get to yourself. So the next time, you know, I can't get off the couch and go to the gym, right, I can't get away from the TV or the you know, the Nintendo, and go study for that test, or I can't stay late and make that call to that client who might give me that, understand that you have 60% left in your reserve to give to yourself. I've used that a million times over my cancer journey. I'm tired, I'm beat, I'm done, I'm not done. I still got 60% left to reserve to give to myself.

Speaker 1: 27:36

Incredible, incredible. Thanks, terry, everyone. This is Terry Tucker. You can find more about Terry, especially reading his book, which is, oh, I see, your website's motivational check, but your book. You've written a book. Just go ahead and share a little bit about your book and where they can get it.

Speaker 2: 27:54

Yeah, the book is called Sustainable Excellence the 10 Principles to Leading your Uncommon and Extraordinary Life. It's available anywhere you can get a book online Amazon, barnes, noble, apple, ibooks Anywhere you can get a book online, you can get sustainable excellence. I'll just give you two quick stories of how the book came to be. I had a player that I coached in high school had moved to Colorado, where my wife and I live with her fiance, and the four of us had dinner one night and I remember saying to her after dinner I'm really excited that you're living close, that I can watch you find and live your purpose. And she got real quiet for a while and then she looked at me and she said well, coach, what do you think my purpose is? I said absolutely no idea what your purpose is, but that's what your life should be about Finding the reason you were put on the face of this or using your unique gifts and talents and living that reason. So that was one conversation.

Speaker 2: 28:48

And then I had a young man in college who reached out to me on social media and he asked what I thought were the most important things that he should learn not to just be successful in his job or in business but to be successful in life. And, jeff, I didn't want to give him that. You know, get up early, work hard, help out. I didn't want to give him sort of the cliches that we all know. I wanted to see if I could go deeper.

Speaker 2: 29:09

So I spent some time. I was walking around with a pen and paper and I had these 10 ideas, these 10 thoughts, these 10 principles, and so I wrote them down and I sent them to him. And then I stepped back and I was like, well, I got a life story that fits underneath that principle, or I know somebody whose life emulates this principle. So, literally during the three to four month period where I was healing after I had my leg amputated, I sat down at the computer every day and I built stories and they're real stories about real people underneath the principles, and that's how sustainable excellence came to be.

Speaker 1: 29:45

Right, love it. Well, everyone, I hope you have been left wanting for more. I sure have. You can check out Terry Tucker at motivationwillcheckitcom or you can check out his book Sustainable Excellence. You can find that. Anywhere you can find books. Thank you, terry, I'm looking forward to. I'd love to have you on another time and there's a lot more to explore here. I'm sure there's some neat stories, from negotiations to undercover narcotics investigations to just your lessons as a basketball coach.

Speaker 2: 30:17

Absolutely Well. Zep, thanks for having me on. I really enjoyed talking with you you as well.